Entries Tagged 'judging' ↓

Dipa Karmakar | Gymnastics in India

India Express – Shrivani Nayak:

‘Dipa is great, but for India to succeed it must look beyond the specifics.”

Jim Holt has coached 7 nations at a fourteen World Championships over the last quarter century, developing gymnastics in far-flung corners. Currently, employed by the Sports Authority of India, the former University of Washington coach has been overseeing the Indian programme. Based out of New Delhi, and frequenting the NIS in Patiala for conducting coaches courses, the American from Seattle puts into perspective Dipa Karmakar’s performances this season, but urges that much more needs to be done if gymnastics has to become a mass-sport that consistently fetches medals for India.

I can state with certainty, given that I’m well connected internationally, and that Dipa Karmakar is currently one of the best-known female vaulters in the world. It is a testimony to her achievement and to coach Nandi’s ambition that she has accomplished a bronze medal at Commonwealth Games and finished 10th (by far highest placing of all gymnasts in India’s history — men or women) at the 2014 World Championships on this event. …

Indian gymnastics is not and should not be Dipa Karmakar and Ashish Kumar. There are a couple thousand kids (in at least 24 or 25 of the states) right now that are India’s future pipeline. …

Personally when I think of Dipa attempting the difficult Produnova, I do not think skills should be competed without achieving mastery of the same.

That said, I only have the highest personal regard, respect, admiration and affection for Dipa. I’ll repeat — I wish she could compete for the men and I’m totally serious about that. Heck, I’d put her on the men’s floor and vault team tomorrow if the rules would allow …

Nandi and Karmakar
Coach Nandi

read more – Vaulting ambition, soaring dreams

Click through to see how and why gymnasts from developing nations like India are the ones, so far, risking the dangerous handspring double front vault.

Click PLAY or watch her Commonwealths double front on YouTube. (15.1)

Click PLAY or watch her Asian Games qualifier on YouTube. (15.2)

Click PLAY or watch her Asian Games Final on YouTube.

So that’s a vault that either scores 0.0. Or 15+. :-(

Nonsensical, in my opinion. That kind of deep, dangerous landing must be deducted more.

Simplest solution is to ban the skill. Next best would be to devalue significantly.

Beam – Teramoto v Mustafina

One of the more controversial decisions at Worlds 2014.

Who should have won the Bronze medal in the Beam final?

Aliya Mustafina missing a 0.5 EGR or Asuka Teramoto?

Click PLAY or watch Aliya on YouTube.

Click PLAY or watch Asuka on YouTube.

3 MUSTAFINA Aliya RUS 5.500 + 8.666 = 14.166
4 TERAMOTO Asuka JPN 5.600 + 8.500 = 14.100


“I knew my beam routine was not the most difficult one and I had no expectations to make it to the podium today. It was sheer luck.”

Bars – the Vivian


#ThrillingThursday! This is the move we call 'THE VIVIAN'!! I broke my back trying to learn this skill last year, but persistence and determination made me try again! Unfortunately the technical committee only valued it a 'C' which was heartbreaking, but that's life. I want to thank my bar coach @jfabs101 for believing such a crazy skill idea could work, and the numerous Australian coaches who helping teach a skill that's never been done! A special thanks goes out to the team at @internationalgymcamp who helped me re-learn this skill and make it possible! ???????????? #TheVivian #Bars #Gymnastics #NewSkill #WhatAThrill

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To handstand, I assume it would be awarded D-part.

To handstand in undergrip and Endo or Weiler, D-part as well.

Grandi on the Code of Points

You may have read accounts of FIG President Grandi’s Press Conference at worlds.

Editorial | Another band-aid from Grandi

That’s The All Around, a site that has closely followed Grandi’s experiments with the Code of Points starting 2006.


I was there and did not leave with the same impression. For one thing, he spoke in broken English rather than being translated. There was not much nuance.

He both stated that the Artistic Codes were not working and that we’ve had enough drastic change.

His idea of dividing the difficulty score by two and adding it to the E-score was simply an example, not a proposal.

One point was clear:

acrobatic content is weighted too much compared with artistic content

I agree.

Uncle Tim’s data shows that difficulty does not always trump execution, however. Uchimura and Ross are two gymnasts who very well competing against higher start scores. They do not fall.

Solutions are being widely debated.

Women’s judges at Worlds attended a presentation on Artistry led by Armine Barutyan Fong, Carol-Angela Orchard and others. As I said to CA, artistry is by its very definition, subjective.

To me Simone Biles’ Floor routine is artistic as it moves me emotionally. Many others disagree.

I highly doubt that any kind of Code definition of artistry is ever going to work. :-(

Instead, the execution judges must rank gymnasts by quality. Apply the Code as written. The range of E-scores must be greater, not tightly clumped the way they are now.

How do we prevent cheating if E-score range is increased?

Publish individual scores for each judge. Most other referees in sport are subject to the court of public opinion. Why are FIG judges so protected? So unaccountable?

I do like the proposal that E-judges be able to deduct 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5 (currently it’s 0.1 or 0.3 or 0.5)

That worked in the past. It would help in the future.

One last thing. Grandi was careful to include the talking point that this is his last term in Office. Conspiracy theorists are still postulating that he plans some kind of Putin strategy in the next election.

Jake Dalton – Artistic Gymnast

One of the big complaints in 2014 is the lack of artistry in Artistic Gymnastics. Beautiful and compelling routines are not often winning.

Personally, I’ve given up on evaluating and rewarding “artistry“. I’d be happy simply to deduct execution errors (legs crossed on twisting, poor body position, etc.) as specified in the Codes.

Here’s one of the best executed routines in Nanning. Geo-blocked in many nations. Sorry about that. Leave a comment if you know of a video of this routine not posted by USAG.

Click PLAY or watch Dalton’s Team FX routine on YouTube.

15.900 = 6.7 + 9.200

That was the highest E-score on Floor. (Uchimura was 2nd highest.) But the gap between Jake and the rest is too small.

full results

Abliazin vs Shirai

Which one is the World Champion?

Click PLAY or watch Denis on YouTube.

Click PLAY or watch Kenzo on YouTube.

At the time I thought Kenzo had it.

Here’s how the judges called it.

1. ABLIAZIN Denis 7.100 + 8.650 = 15.750
2. SHIRAI Kenzo 7.400 + 8.433 – 0.1OB = 15.733

HYPOLITO was 3rd with 15.700

full results

Huang Huidan v Yao Jinnan

The defending World Bars Champion competed first.

Click PLAY or watch Huang on YouTube.

Click PLAY or watch Yao on YouTube.

1 Yao Jinnan CHN 6.9 + 8.733 = 15.633
2 Huang Huidan CHN 6.8 + 8.766 = 15.566

official results

Tough call. But I prefer Huang’s routine. Though you can’t see it from that angle, Yao’s dismount is a weak double layout that wouldn’t be credited in some competitions. Huang’s is very original.

In 2014, however, the Difficulty score usually decides close decisions.

Lauren of the Gymternet noticed that Yao was not wearing her competition number.

Catherine – Beautiful Gymnastics – EF Day 1: Vault and Bars:

… This was addressed after the competition in which it was stated that it fell off right before, and that it was presented to the judges and accepted. …

Update from Lauren:

Huang Huidan and Yao Jinnan were interviewed by CCTV as soon as they got off the podium after finishing their uneven bar final routines. …

When mentioned that she started crying after her routine, she explained that she was moved and it was adrenaline when the tears first came down. However, when she moved from first to second, she was sad because she felt “???” — it’s a tricky thing to translate. In short, it’s that feeling when you tried your best and did really well but fell just a little short and you can’t reconcile with it.

Yao was next, and when asked, she said she wasn’t “comfortable” with her win. She said, “Dandan performed better than me, so when I saw her cry…I don’t know.” …

In Translation: Huang Huidan and Yao Jinnan Talk Bars

Rings: Liu, Nabarrete, You & Abliazin

Two medals for China on Rings, well deserved.

The D-score actually went up for You Hao. To 7.0.

What was the issue?

Denis Abliazin did not hit nor stick. I disagree with his Execution score. Judges got that one wrong.

Courtney Tulloch will be on the A-team for GBR from here on in. They need that Ring routine. And he’s only going to get stronger.

Courtney added “Victorian” Cross to his Finals routine.

Bars: Yao, Huang, Spiridonova

Happy Happy for the Chinese fans in Nanning.

Their girls finish GOLD and SILVER. Well deserved, but I would have reversed the order. Yao’s dismount is not truly a double layout. Huang’s execution was better.

I felt the Execution judges “boxed” their scores, with Mustafina suffering most. Despite having the cleanest routine, she scored only 8.80 virtually tied with Spiridonova, Locklear and Huang.

LIVE blog commentary on Gymternet. Lauren notes that Yao did not wear her number but judges did not catch it.

Ashton Locklear to Bars Final

Ashton has really improved her execution over the past weeks.

Click PLAY or watch her Secret routine on YouTube.

Click PLAY or watch her prelims routine to qualify to today’s Final on YouTube.

top 25 AA D-scores

… shown by the women in qualifications. Italics mean they didn’t qualify to the AA, whether it be because of two-per-country or ranking too low.



Women’s Team Final E-scores

Who hit best and cleanest according to our Execution judges?

1. USA
2. ROM
3. GBR

These charts compare the official E-Scores scores posted by all the athletes who competed in the Women’s Team Finals at the 2014 World Gymnastics Championships in Nanning, China. Countries are listed in descending rank, 1st through 8th respectively. The data was compiled and visualized by Amanda Leigh Verhaeg from official scores at www.nanning2014gymnastics.com.


Artistic Gymnastics Institute

Click through for interactive details.


Zhang Chenglong competed only his specialty in the Team Final.

Last competitor. Last apparatus.

He hit.

The host team China won the meet with that routine. He’s a National hero today.

But when his final score was flashed and the score was exactly enough for Team China to win by 0.10, I was angered and outraged. It looked very suspicious to me (and many).

We were in China. The apparatus supervisor was from China. Thousands of local fans were raising the roof with their cheering.

Was the score manipulated?

Were the Execution judges swept up in the moment?

Because the E-score for ZHANG Chenglong was too high.

Click PLAY or watch the big moment on YouTube.

ZHANG – Difficulty 7.500 + Execution 8.466 = 15.966

UCHIMRA – Difficulty 6.900 + Execution 8.500 = 15.400

Click PLAY or watch Kohei on YouTube.

Uchimura’s routine is cleaner. His angles are better. Kohei has fewer unnecessary hand placements. Kohei’s landing is better. The difference is far more than 0.034.

The judges got it wrong.

FIG MTC will review the scores from this meet, as they always do. Perhaps some action will be taken. More likely not.

Uncle Tim posted the best summary of the JPN vs CHN Team Final – 2014 Men’s World Team Finals: When Difficulty Edges Out Execution:

… Sure, judges will mess up from time to time. They are human – just like the gymnasts. When it is crystal clear that the judges did mess up, they should be castigated.

But was Zhang Chenglong’s high bar score as painfully wrong as the Marian Dragulescu’s 2004 vault score situation?

No. … Don’t be so dramatic. …

Perhaps I did get too wrapped up in the competition myself. Too emotional.

But FIG Judges are not nearly held accountable enough when they make mistakes. I was a Brevet Judge myself for decades.

Here are the official results if you want to do more analysis yourself.

In my opinion Japan were the rightful winners of the Team competition at Worlds 2014. Just as I felt Japan should have finished 4th in Team at the London Olympics. The judges got it wrong there, as well.

And if anyone would like to put up a contrary opinion on this site, I’m happy to post if for you.