Tamayo is an F-part (0.6) — double layout Arabian. Named for the great Charlie Tamayo … who did not compete it often. I couldn’t find a routine on YouTube.
Everyone’s raving about Stacey Ervin’s at Winter Cup.
Click PLAY or watch it on YouTube.
Here’s Kieran Behan training a good one. (VIDEO)
Here’s Kyle Shewfelt training it.
Click PLAY or watch it on YouTube.
Kyle trained it into punch front 1/1, as well.
… On the other hand, that’s the skill where Kyle broke both legs and did ligament damage. At 2007 World Championships podium training. The landing is blind and dangerous.
As Jessica O’Beirne pointed out in the most recent episode of GymCastic, Winter Cup AA Champ Jake Dalton mounts with double layout half out, not Tamayo.
Click PLAY or watch it on YouTube.
That’s a great trick too. But it’s only a D-part (0.4) — and it’s in the same box as double layout, so you can’t compete both elements in the same routine.
In these cases, it’s clear. But there are going to be variations where it’s very difficult to tell the difference.
If I was Steve Butcher, I’d propose both be valued as E-parts. Both be considered the same skill.
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While differences in twist timing created different visual appearances and even difficulties…it gets way too hard to control which is different from which.
For instance a full out is arguably harder than a full in. and requires different techniques to perform. But then many people’s fullins are really sorta halfin half outish.
I also don’t care for the half in double arabian, barani out. Yeah…it is technically different…but how do you control intermediate variations…and is it worth it.
I would credit Jake with a Tamayo, because I’m an idiot and he’s a Sooner….but why did all the other judges screw up so badly and miss this? Or what he actually credited for a Tamayo in some of these routines? Does someone have access to the scoring sheets?
His lack of artistry is more concerning, very weak japanese press and the “man wash” prior to his last past are his best corner moves, besides his 10 degree split jump that would loose .2 or more in a level 5-7 routine , take nothing away fom his power but not a very classy set!
Just so you know Jacob he’s not actually trying to do a split jump…it’s just a made up thing guys do because it’s a deduction to step and turn into the corner. So you’ll see half-assed stag jump and some like his.
I agree with coach rick, I’d make the tamayo an E. I would also put arabian double tucks and pikes in the same box at a D. No way a tuck-double double and an arabian double pike should be worth the same amount. A hypolito should be an E. I would also make a double front half out an E and double pike half outs F’s. They should also give more bonus for 3 skill combo’s so we don’t have 6-7 passes in a single routine that the gymnasts have to cram in before the time limit is up. Rather than just .1 for C+C, I would make a blanket rule for .1 bonus for any three skills worth over .8 and maybe .2 for three skills worth over 1.0. Maybe an extra .1 in bonus for connecting double saltos although I think that might just make layout punch double fronts compulsory.
“Just so you know Jacob he’s not actually trying to do a split jump…it’s just a made up thing guys do because it’s a deduction to step and turn into the corner. So you’ll see half-assed stag jump and some like his.”
-its actually called the kai after great floor champion zou kai
They just need to go back to the 2006-2008 rules for floor. Floor was great back then, and has sucked ever since. They also need to get rid of the simple steps deduction. It doesn’t work. People just do stupid crappy jumps to the corner that look really ugly.
Thank You Jacob for recognizing Zou Kai as a great champion…which you somehow did in spite being unfamiliar enough with MAG to think Jake Dalton was actually attempting a split jump. Corner moves are simply not a requirement.
I agree the simple steps rule is a dumb rule. The stupid crappy jumps don’t add anything to the routines and they are not much of an athletic challenge.
I also agree with bonus for three (or more) skill tumbling combos. If men can connect tumbles the way Shewfelt did they should get credit. There would be fewer tumbling runs and more time for non acro skills.
familar with the rules of elite mens gymnastics or not i coach juniors and would never allow any one of my boys to do a corner move as hideous as his 5 stag hops!
It is a epidemic of power tumblers to disregard style and quality transition for the sake of packing in difficulty and rush through transitions more times than not being the american floor specialist!
Sports are about winning. Zou Kai and Jake Dalton win things. it’s that simple.
Jake Dalton’s coach, Mark Williams, has never had an NCAA team out of the top three in 10 years and put 5 guys on the US Olympic Team.
These people are probably reading all the stuff people say about them or their gymnasts, looking at their trophies, and laughing their butts off.
mark williams is a great person but he is not responsible for the development of that talent their junior coaches are, he is a great recruiter and is a great person and motivates his teams very well but lets give some credit where it is due tom meadows and kelly crumley sergei, and so on and so on
Dalton twists a little late here, but it’s not a double layout backward — the entire second salto is a front layout. I’d give if the F and take a tenth for the late twist. That’d knock it down to be equivalent to an E.
[...] was fantastic. But I still credit him D, not F value. It’s not a [...]
I, too, think the twist is fine and it’s definitely not a (back) double layout. Williams was a well known junior coach before he took over at OU. I remember him having the most number of guys at JOs a couple times. He was Guard Young’s junior coach long before the Olympics and coached Tom Meadows, too. Oh and, if you’re giving credit where credit is due, it was really Don Osborne that would deserve most of the credit for Buffalo Grove’s boys’ success. Crumley was the gym owner, but Osborne did the lion’s share of coaching.
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