Nellie Kim speaks

A rare communication from our WTC. Quite interesting.

2011 World Championships – Tokyo, JPN
WAG General Report

A few highlights:

154 gymnasts competed in the All-Around and 62 gymnasts competed in 1 to 3 events

Average Age ’11 WC 18.72

Youngest Team – 16.20 (USA)

27 gymnasts ( 14,21 %) performed 2 vaults in Competition I.

… There was not much control on the access of the coaches to the Field of Play. Sometimes more than 2 coaches were in. Also, access was permitted to 2 male coaches into the competition area for UB. …

Being prohibited the use of IRCOS system, calculation of D-Score was more benevolent. It would have been very useful to have IRCOS and/or communication with Apparatus Supervisor in very specific cases. …

Following the decision of the FIG EC the TCs and D-Panels were not allowed to use IRCOS in case of doubts or disagreements.

Prior to the first competition’s day there were many discussions, clarifications regarding this new decision. It was not clear to the TCs how to operate, how to apply new ruling and at the same time to apply CoP (e.g. the video review is compulsory in case of “0” vault and etc.).

It was very stressful situation for the WTC and for the judges (in particular for the D-Panels). …

Last year in Rotterdam many felt the WTC was using video review too often.

photo by Grace Chiu

The most interesting comment:

The individual judges’ E- scores should be eliminated from the result book.

I couldn’t disagree more. For one thing, I couldn’t find the individual judges’ E-scores in the result book I got. (Leave a comment if you did.)

Secondly, the biggest problem right now is that the E-judges are ‘boxing’ the scores. No wonder WTC wants to hide who threw what insanely unjust score. Their judges would be and should be lynched.

In Tokyo, only a few ladies were verbally warned. None were sanctioned.

Download the full report (PDF) including WAG NEW ELEMENTS.

Commentary on Couch Gymnast.

19 comments ↓

#1 TCO on 11.12.11 at 5:32 am

score cheating communist

#2 coach Rick on 11.12.11 at 6:03 am

Some call Nellie an ‘American’ as she now lives in the States.

#3 Susie on 11.12.11 at 6:07 am

Out of interest, why do you say that some of the judges were boxing the score?

#4 coach Rick on 11.12.11 at 6:16 am

The best routines are scored too low. The worst routines too high. The difference too close together.

… Slang for that is called “boxing”, I’m not sure why.

Judges do it so they are not found “out of range” by score checking software.

#5 Anonymous on 11.12.11 at 8:24 am

Amen about E scoreboxing. As regards E scores, the other elephant in the room is the overall crazy low execution scores (ub and fx particularly). E scores averaging BELOW 7? At world championships? Come on. I’m not a judge or anything close, so please take with a grain of salt.

It seems to me that the ub issue is that the some of the handstand deductions need to be relaxed slightly, as there is more to quality bar work than pirouetting exactly in handstand. Looking at the E scores of Huang (low 8s) who does crazy invert pirouetting skills as well as anyone ever, I think the standards for some of these skills may really be impossible.

To me, fx is more complicated. I think just about everyone hates the stick rule, and I think that the chest position on landing deductions are so strict that we lose variety and virtuosity in tumbling elements. On the other hand, I would agree that pretty much no one has good execution on the non-acro elements, and we need to just stop ugly multiple turns and turning switch leaps from happening in place of actual flow and movement.

#6 Anonymous on 11.12.11 at 8:27 am

If E scores don’t even determine placement, why should they be so damned low? What does it add to the sport except audience confusion?

#7 TCO on 11.12.11 at 9:06 am

I love the stick rule. It is hard to cheat. It is easily understood by casual observors. And it shows true gymnastic mastery. Hold the little darlings accountable.

#8 anonymous on 11.12.11 at 1:12 pm

TCO, you’d rather watch stop, try to stick, ignore music for a while, then resume routine? Or ugly jumps out of passes? You don’t think control can be discerned without allowing the pass to flow into the rest of the routine? I’d hold this up as a counter-example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6P2redWM3Y

At the time, I thought the routine was pretty blah, but from the perspective of choreography, in compares favorably with 95% of what we see today (and certainly with Komova’s nutcracker rendition!) And damn, could she tumble! She leaves no question she’s in control of the landings.

Incidentally, these passes are plenty hard by today’s standards (I don’t claim to know what they’d be worth, but they’re plenty hard to execute). But no one today would dare end with a full in for fear of the stupid landing deductions it would incur (not just stick, chest level, etc. too), even if they could do it as well as Amanar does it here.

#9 Jamie on 11.12.11 at 1:16 pm

Nellie is a cheater. I can’t believe she is allowed to be in charge at all.

#10 GymFan on 11.12.11 at 1:29 pm

I like the stick rule too. No more huge lunges to cover up wonky landings.

#11 Sam on 11.12.11 at 1:46 pm

“A few ladies were verbally warned” after AA ;)

#12 Ono No Komachi on 11.12.11 at 3:02 pm

All the report said was judges were verbally warned, nothing about when or where it happened.

“The individual judges’ E- scores should be eliminated from the result book.”

I think Nellie meant these are never coming back as long as she’s around.

I agree 100 % with Coach Rick here…this is pure B.S.

If a judge is willing to assign an E score to a gymnast that worked all his or her life and is risking that life to perform at a competition, than he or she (and the FIG) should have no problem putting this in a report.

Doing otherwise will only convince people the FIG has something to hide. Some of the people in that organization appear to have a limited understanding of human nature…people’s imaginations can create all kinds of stories in the absence of actual data, and most of these will not reflect well on the FIG.

#13 Shergymrag on 11.12.11 at 3:56 pm

I’m still glad for the stick rule. I think it should be reflected in the score when the gymnast sticks vs. taking a lunge. I’m not in favor of a “stick bonus” at all. Gymnasts would still “land and try to stick” to get the bonus.

#14 TCO on 11.12.11 at 4:32 pm

1. I don’t like the jumps either. I actually want them to just do floor how the men do.

2. I think the dancing out is weak argument for high level skills anyway. Can you REALLY dance out of a double salto? BS. Those lunges are steps.

#15 GymFan on 11.12.11 at 8:43 pm

All lunges are steps. It used to be that when a gymnast truly stuck a pass, they would stick and then AFTER would jump into a lunge. It was plenty artistic. But since most girls cannot stick their tumbling passes, we rarely saw it. I’m glad there is a stick rule.

#16 Clinton on 11.13.11 at 8:54 pm

It is really sad that the FIG are saying that displaying individual judge E-scores should be eliminated. This is really really bad. It just shows that they are more interested in covering their own arses than trying to improve the sport. They should be trying to increase the transparency of the scores. The scandals are just getting worse and more frequent every year, and the execution deductions are just getting more and more subjective.

#17 Shergymrag on 11.14.11 at 3:04 pm

“E scores averaging BELOW 7? At world championships? Come on.”

There’s no reason for the average to be higher. Not with nearly 200 gymnasts competing. Not with so many of them chucking more difficulty than they should and paying for it with really low E-scores. That’s why the average is so low.

#18 Caly on 11.14.11 at 7:30 pm

The result books that the federations receive do have E scores from individual judges while they are not open to the public.
Another siginificant change from last year to this year is on the Java Application to view the live scoring, you can see E score change befroe they are released last year but you can only see the total score change this year.

#19 coach Rick on 11.14.11 at 7:41 pm

Ah ha.

The Federation books do show E scores. Interesting.

I’d like to get my hands on one of those.

Obviously WTC wants less transparency and accountability for E scores. There’s a reason for that.

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