Eileen Langsley has been a sports photographer for 12 Olympics Games, a legend.
Amanda Turner quoting Eileen:
…She writes that she is disillusioned by the state of the profession, and that she was horrified by the unprofessional and even dangerous behavior of amateur photographers given credentials at the 2010 Worlds in Rotterdam.
“I even saw some of these happy snappers poking gymnasts in the back and asking them to turn round and pose for a picture – incredible…” Langsley writes. “…I was pushed and thumped in Rotterdam and I know of another colleague who was hit on the head.” …
Eileen exaggerates regarding Rotterdam. It was hectic, but not dangerous. Almost everyone felt that to be the best World Championships ever for media.
Tokyo and London World Championships will need to be more closely policed, however. Those meets could be dangerous.
Her quote is from the latest magazine of the International Sports Press Association (AIPS):
… My comments come more from a sense of disillusionment and concern than anything else and are written more in sorrow than anger, though I realise that in some ways the profession is past the point of no return and it is not now possible to return to the standards and mores of what was a golden age – a time when it was a challenging and satisfying profession. Having worked at recent major and world class events in a variety of sports I find more and more that professionalism and the standards of skill, behaviour and respect that go along with it are rapidly diminishing. …
read more (PDF)
Search for Langsley on that document.
Eileen’s probably right. It’s time for her to retire.
There’s no going back to the era of only a few paid elite photographers getting access.
I’d love to link to one of Eileen’s photos and her website from this post. But I’m afraid she’d invoice me for using it.
related posts
• in praise of Eileen Langsley
• Eileen Langsley – Rotterdam Worlds
• Eileen Langsley Photography
51 comments ↓
Rick,
before you call Eileen out and suggest that “it’s time for her to..go…”,
maybe you should contact her directly and get
CONTEXT….
“dangerous” is presumably not accurate, but I submit that the context of her comments and implications for media reach FAR beyond a few “kid-bloggers” (not you) that clogged up the photo areas in Rotterdam…
Eileen has had decades of experience dealing with FIG….THAT’s the story you should be following….
She suggested it’s time to go. I’m agreeing.
(As you probably noticed, I was very careful to avoid the scrums in Rotterdam. It did turn me off. Slightly. Not for any reasons of ‘danger’, but I’m old enough to understand Eileen’s discomfort with the lack of decorum.)
Overall, I’m all for the future. More ‘citizen bloggers’. More access to the folks she calls ‘amateurs’. I appreciate those people far more than the ‘old media’.
USAG ‘gets’ that, too. They are doing a great job of opening things up.
… But don’t worry, Jim. The ‘man’ will clamp down in Tokyo and London, I’m certain.
Per usual, bloggers show themselves to be entirely self-centered and useless. A few losers running a blog will never be able to contend with the impact Langsley has had on this sport.
If anyone needs to go it is the useless bloggers who contribute absolutely nothing to the sport other than making fans look ridiculous. Luckily, the FIG will not be accrediting these blogs again for Tokyo and London. You lot had your shot, and you blew it. Well done.
After what happened in Rotterdam, ‘the man’ has every right to clamp down on the amateurs. I’m for the future, too-but from what I’ve heard, there were people poking the gymnasts in the back and asking for a picture. There is no other word for that kind of behavior than RUDE. And someone SHOVING a coach out of the way in order to get a picture of a gymnast? Come on Rick-don’t tell me you support that kind of behavior. I know you don’t.
I personally think this kind of crap would be stopped if the FIG took some of these people aside and let them know that kind of rude behavior won’t be tolerated. I would guess that would be a solution to this problem.
I was there. I stayed at the same place as a photographer and got daily updates on what went ‘wrong’.
From what I heard, she’s greatly exaggerating. Summing up 10 long days talking about a few unfortunate incidents. … The complaints I heard were all about the TV media.
That’s just like saying not all fans would go and stab the rival of your favorite player in the back so it’s not fair that there is now more security around the athletes. I’m sorry but it doesn’t matter how good everyone else was. Just a few people behaving poorly merits censure.
There is video evidence of this. There is a video on youtube, of whom I believe it to be of a person over at Couch Gymnast, actually reaching over the barrier, tapping on a coach’s shoulder and asking him to move so she can get her shot.
Completely unacceptable and completely unprofessional.
Um, I’m sure Eileen wouldn’t exaggerate anything to make a point. She was reporting what she saw. And I’m sure she’s got her colleagues to back her up. This is EILEEN LANGSLEY. She’s been taking pictures since right before Nadia, if I’m not mistaken. If she’s saying something is wrong here, there is SOMETHING WRONG. Rude behavior towards gymnasts by anyone-including journalists, actual OR citizen “journalists”-is simply unacceptable and SHOULD be censured.
Eileen is a legend for our sport. Even if she’s exaggerating, there must be some truth to it. After all, she loves what she does and to consider retiring, there must have been oodles of unprofessional behavior. Did you ever consider that you may not have heard EVERY story and seen EVERY thing that happened?
I love that there are bloggers dedicated enough to go out and report and photograph. But, they need to learn professionalism so they don’t give the amateur side of gymnastics reporting a bad name.
This post is extremely offensive and insulting to someone who has done only wonderful things for the sport of gymnastics. Eileen Langsley has a legacy that will never be matched! I think that Rick is biased because he wants to continue to get press passes and he wants his buddies like the Couch Gymnast to be there too. Rick, do you think everything should be “opened up” to amateurs because that’s the way of the future? Should bloggers be given credentials as Olympic coaches? How about team physios and doctors? I would hope not. But yet you think anyone can be a journalist? I feel bad for Eileen and hope she does not see this post. How disrespectful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3nrLhALU8w
4:23 in the video above, Rick. Watch. She’s not TV media, she’s Couch Gymnast.
“There’s no going back to the era of only a few paid elite photographers getting access. ”
Well, that’s not what she’s talking about anyway. Clearly, she was lamenting some poor behavior on the part of whoever. I don’t see that it had anything to do with who got paid and who didn’t.
That’s Brigid, alright. She was a volunteer doing updates on the daily “newspaper” for Worlds. A blogger for the meet organizers.
Probably spent more time in the venue than anyone else.
… I never heard any complaints about Brigid while I was there.
I’m sorry you feel so offended. Perhaps you’d like to submit a contrary opinion, though I feel Eileen has expressed her concerns as eloquently as anyone could. That article is getting wide circulation on the internet, including on this site.
Bloggers who apply and are accepted for each event should get media credentials. Many bloggers applied for Rotterdam who were not accepted by FIG.
The times are much different and better in many ways. We can all follow events now in real time. With that comes a new learning curve. I don’t think Rick is being disrespectful but perhaps as the new generation of gymnastics media develops so will the proper guidelines. Not too long ago we had to wait and read results in the few newspapers that would post them. Eileen has given so much to our sport but the old days are over.
I don’t need to submit an alternate viewpoint because as you said Eileen said it well, and she has the respect to make people listen. I think your original post was offensive to Eileen, telling her that she’s “over.” I don’t know anyone who would agree with such an ugly statement. I don’t see any comments on this post that agree. And I heard the same complaints from a friend who is a European photographer. I imagine your source of information was this specific group who went to have fun.
A lot of bloggers are simply groupies, and want media credentials because they want to be near famous gymnasts. And it saves money on purchasing tickets! I believe you had media credentials but as far as I can tell, you never conducted an interview with a gymnast or coach. (Please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t know how to find your posts from Nederlands.) Why did you require a credential?
I quite enjoy this site but I think I will not read it any longer if this is your new attitude. Eileen Langsley is a beloved figure in gymnastics, and you lose all respect by attacking her in favour of Brigid Couch Gymnast McCarthy.
Very well said. Thanks fanfanfan.
When I wrote that post (quickly), I certainly intended no offense to Eileen, personally.
But that seems to be how it was read by many.
I’ll try (likely unsuccessfully) to correct that by putting up a profile piece about her history and work.
Certainly I won’t take down this post as I’m 100% behind every word. Eileen overstated the problem in Rotterdam. But I posted her opinion anyway. With my contrary view.
People can read both and, as you say, most may side with Eileen, not me.
I’m OK with that.
To “Go Eileen”: The bloggers provide us great information 365 days per year. Everything from coaching advances, technique adjustment, safety, competition coverage and much more. Gymnastics is WAY better because of their efforts. And they provide information erevy day year round. Countless hours all for free! AP photographers show up at the big event, snap a few shots and are gone for the rest of the year. As far as who deserves credentials, I think it’s a no-brainer. That being said, guidelines need to be in place but because many bloggers are young and may lack experience it is not fair to discredit their work or value.
I love the Couch Gymnast. I love Langsley’s work.
I find myself disagreeing with Langsley’s assertion that normal photographers can compare with her. I have seen her work. The thought that goes into the photos is incredible. I am not taking away from examiner.com or the Couch Gymnast, because I like their photos, but I have to say that Langsley is in a different class. I hope that the sport always has room for her skills. Her portfolio is http://www.langsleysports.com/#/client/template.xml?aaa=portfolio/23489
The Couch Gymnast provides an angle of gymnastics that no-one else does. Unlike the mainstreamers, she actually knows stuff about gymnastics and even has an interest in it, unlike the “yuchenko off the beam” media. Mainstream media don’t behave perfectly either *cough, Andrea Joyce cough.*
I do not see what about the video I was supposed to find objectionable. So she was taking a photo? So were lots of other people. She was not standing in their way.
Surely, there can be new rules of engagement that allow bloggers and Langsley’s old guard to co-exist.
Rick, no offense, but if Eileen says there were problems, then I believe HER. I can’t imagine you were down where the photographers were, so why do you say she is exaggerating? If Eileen says there were photographers snorting cocaine off the bathroom floor, I would believe her. If she was upset enough to write an article about what occurred, I believe she is telling the truth.
If this Brigid girl is the one who asked her to pose during the competition, she has no business being credentialed ever again. Not only does she lack photojournalism ethics (she is there to capture the action as it happens, not create it or set it up) she clearly knows nothing about gymnastics competition! As a coach, I would be LIVID if this happened to my athlete at provincials, much less worlds! The athletes know they need to be absolutely focused on their next routine and “in their zone.”
I wonder if this is the gymnast who was asked to pose – Aliya looks happy to be disturbed doesn’t she! This was during the all-around final, no less! http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1474986559149&set=a.1492291151753.2072116.1368262961
[...] write this post because some felt my disagreement with one point in her recent article in the International Sports Press Association magazine was disrespectful. Even a personal [...]
I was about 70% of the time at the end of the arena, looking down on the photographers. A great view.
And about 30% of the time in the media room, watching the meet on monitors.
You’d have to ask the coaches and gymnasts on the Floor how they felt. I can’t speak for them, only for what I saw and heard.
Perhaps 2 levels of permission?
Top ranked shooters in the pits of the competition? Others only in the scrum post-meet and in the training gyms?
… I’ve never been a photographer, so my opinion shouldn’t count for much.
Certainly I believe those things happened. Isolated incidents.
But over 10 days, overall, it was excellent.
The worst things I saw with my own eyes were in the media scrums after the competition. It reminded me, at times, of a dog fight pit.
Some gymnasts actually appreciate that kind of attention. Mustafina, conspicuously, didn’t. She dashed away from all media as quickly as possible.
Eileen Langsley is a legend in this sport, having turned athletic photography into true art, while at the same time highlighting the important athletic/competitive moments in every meet she ever shot.
Who the f*ck are you?
And do you blame Mustafina for dashing away from all media whenever possible? Especially the way some of the amateurs were behaving on the podium? I frankly admire Aliya’s restraint, especially after the person taking the famous “stare” photo just pokes her in the back and has the gall to ask for a picture. I would have gotten away from those idiots at all possible myself. GymCoach is right-the amateurs clearly did not realize what exactly they were to do-a photojournalist is there to record the action as it happens, not CREATE it.
What you were doing and what the idiots were doing are two different things, mainly because you have BEEN on a competition podium before, being a coach. You clearly knew how to behave. I suspect the worst offenders had never been on a competition podium-only in the stands. That’s part of the problem.
Bloggers have a place. In the stands like the rest of us. Unless you have been to college and earned a degree in A. Journalism or B. Photography you have NO business applying for let alone receiving a press credential. You can blog your self-serving self-important opinion from 5 rows up. Without taking up the space of a trained professional down on the floor.
Re Mustafina “She dashed away from all media as quickly as possible.”
Um, really? Funny- I was able to interview her in the mixed zone after both the AA and day 2 of EF. She didn’t run away and answered all of my questions.
The standard procedure in the mixed zone is that journalists have to stop a gymnast they wish to talk to. The gymnasts are not required to stop unless they are asked. The rules are well known and documented.
Journalists are adults and can be expected to arrange their own interviews. It’s part of the job.
And yes, if you don’t stop them they run off
))). It happens all the time.
We got better coverage from the bloggers at last years worlds then we did from IG or anyone else including the main stream media.
Eileen is bitter because she is losing her paying job because places like IG are buying their pictures for their magazine from the amateurs. That is all this is about.
Being a legend doesn’t mean she is right. She is a beautiful photographer but that doesn’t mean she is right about everyone else being bad for the sport.
Some people are just bitter that the couch gymnast is becoming more well known then their bitter hag message board and they can’t handle it. How many hate threads do you have on your board today about other message boards and blogs because they broke news or had success and you didn’t?
I don’t understand why you all can’t get along and do what is best for the Gymnastics community. Which is for all of them to be successful.
Want more proof here is what Doc said on GGMB. This proves you are just bitter so I guess getting along for the sake of the art is a waste of time.
And another thing, if GymnasticsCoaching,Couch Gymnast and all the other blogs get FIG press passes to Worlds, then why shouldn’t GGMB? We’ve been covering the sport longer than they have and have done a better f’in job of it. ” Doc
Certainly Doc could apply for a credential for Tokyo.
Those will be tough to get, I expect. The Japanese media will get most of the spots.
Why would Doc get a credential? She is part of a message board. She is just a fan and I would hardly call her that she doesn’t seem to like anyone
The professionals DEPEND ON THIS AS THEIR LIVELIHOOD. How would you feel if someone said, “okay, we’re going to give your office job to this intern, and they’ll do similar work for free/for a small stipend. We don’t need you now.” How would you feel about that?
Why shouldn’t professional photographers be bitter if the magazines are using amateur photos? USING is the key word…a lot of the time the magazines will hoodwink amateurs into giving up their photos for “the glory” of a credit, or for a fee that is far less than the conventional fee paid to a professional. The photos aren’t better. The labor is cheaper.
And that hurts almost everyone.
It obviously hurts the professionals who are no longer able to negotiate reasonable fees.
It hurts you as an amateur because it means there will be less of a chance for you to move up into the professional ranks and get fairly paid for your photos.
It hurts the gymnasts and coaches who end up dealing with rude or unprofessional photographers. Maybe that means they will offer less access in the future, and that will hurt everyone, because there will be less coverage.
Anyone can apply. It not easy to get approved.
“serious” quick question….
what are criteria (FIG criteria i guess…) to “get approved?
goodness knows that FIG has rigourous standards…..
;->
I don’t believe IG ever paid any of their freelance photographers. Photographers have always donated their photos and they just got free subscriptions out of it. At least, that’s what many of the IG freelancers in the past have told me. And Eileen certainly has no problems getting Paul Ziert to pay up for her work. She sold him the rights to her entire collection and at a discount too from what I hear. She could have gotten four times the amount from Corbis.
@Anna: Excuse me, but some GGMB people, including myself, were considering applying for a press pass in Anaheim in 2003. We decided not to, mainly because we would be taking the place of an actual journalist or journalists. And I MENTIONED that on GGMB yesterday, as soon as I remembered that. I asked that question because of this: if the blogs are able to get press passes (which they should NOT if certain bloggers are going to behave like they did in Rotterdam) then GGMB should have been able to because we do NOT shove coaches aside for pictures and poke gymnasts in the back asking for pictures. In other words, we’re not RUDE.
I’ve been expecting you to show up and try, try again to make me look like a fool. And you failed again. Nice try. Now please STHU and leave this discussion to the people actually participating in it without an agenda.
@Ja: I don’t like people with an agenda. And you and your buddy Anna have one. So, STHU and leave this conversation to the people who were having it.
What’s the point of giving GGMB media credentials when only a select few could actually enjoy it? (and joining the secret club is largely about how much you will suck up to the moderators, one of whom is Doc M. ) While Gymnastike, Couch Gymnast and Gymnastics and other gymnastics blogs try to create professional websites that share information and videos to all, GGMB remains a secret club only available to a select few. I’d say GGMB is its own worst enemy when it comes to being taken seriously. The pornographic titles and word filters are funny but they don’t lend you a any sort of credibility as a sports media outlet.
The only person looking like a fool is you Doc. You were busted and obviously cannot handle it. LMAO
You run a MESSAGE BOARD. What makes you think you deserve a credential?
GGMB had no chance in hell of getting a credential in 2003 unless it was a secret one from a locked door by a coach. That is how your last “credential” was attained.
You are jealous of the couch-gymnast and that is painfully obvious.
I read GGMB occasionally and while it is a little clicquish and yes they use adult language, the people know their stuff. And if not, they get driven off. I don’t think this is the place to discuss your dislike of GGMB. That is not what this comment section is about. It’s certainly not a place to attack Doc.
All IG’s photos from big meets seem to be Thomas Shreyer. Maybe some from Eileen too now that’s she back. They also use Debbie Poe who is an “amateur” also but has been around for a long time. I can’t imagine they give them their photos for free. I think IG2 uses Grace Chiu, who is another story altogether.
I don’t think ANYONE is jealous of the Couch Gymnast. For what? Her inability to spell? Her amazing ability to introduce us to Olympic champions? Her newfound reputation as a trainwreck? Her gripping articles on leotard fashion?
wow actually I AM jealous. I’m starting my SofaGymnast webzine now!!! Shall I introduce the world to Aurelia Dobre or Daniela Silivas first?
Oh, BS. YOU were the one who was busted the moment I found out who you are. As far as I know nobody on GGMB has ever needed-or wanted-a credential. Yes, we were talking about it in 2003, but decided not to do it. And yeah, we probably wouldn’t have gotten one, either. That’s not the point. Point is, we would have been taking a spot from someone who’s worked hard to earn it. That’s not fair to them.
As for your crap about GGMB being for a “select few”, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
Hi guys,
I know we get a lot of garbage about GGMB. In fact I’m so busy moderating it I didn’t even know of this place. But I’d love to read your place it if you’ll have me.
But to diminish Eileen Langlsey is absolutely wrong.
I was lucky enough to become an silly little Jr. IG journalist back in ’89, and you better know it, before I walked onto the competition floor, Eileen Langlsey and Nancy Raymond told me how to keep my head from getting chopped off.
It was all common sense, but I owe my owe my wonderful 1989 World Championships experience to them, as well as Glenn Sundby, who got me my press pass in the first place, through International Gymnast which he founded. I subsequently helped him at the 1990 and 1992 NCAAS.
It seems there are arguments about GGMB here…I wish there were not. We keep our memberships private due to crazy people in our past and our coffers full by free-will donations. None of our staff is paid. EVER. We have accounting for it. I was only pointed here by a friend.
Anyway, we may have our differences and ways of speaking, but ultimately at GGMB we want to share the internet with everybody. We won’t bother you, and please don’t bother us.
Thanks for the interjection, Matt.
Not often, but every once in a while, flame wars break out in the comments on this site.
Oh well. Less than 5% of readers see the comments so it’s mostly a back-and-forth between two people who’d probably have a drink together if they were in the same room.
I can’t be the only one who finds the attitudes of some of the GGMB clique- not Matt- to the existence of alternative sources of information about gym rather hilarious. Abomb’s barely concealed jealousy of Aunt Joyce causes me no end of the giggles.
Perhaps GGMB might have got a few offers of accreditation back in the day, before Abomb’s Stalinesque tendencies became so widely known. But now he’s got previous for threatening to beat up a minor at US Nationals and to tell the world about the Alabama girls and their abortions if their fans didn’t stop pissing him off, nobody is going to let him anywhere near a competition floor, whatever he may wish to claim. News flash son, it’s not that USAG hate all fans, but they do hate you. And Alicia Sacramone thinks you’re a creep.
Doc’s comments about declining the 03 pass are missing the point. GGMB wouldn’t have been taking that spot from a journalist. There aren’t a surplus of journalists wanting to report on worlds. They’d have been taking a spot a journalist didn’t want. The same was true of the bloggers at Rotterdam. None of them would’ve been preferred over a journalist from a periodical with massive circulation. If people don’t want to take accreditation opportunities offered to them, that’s their choice, but declining doesn’t mean that the spot goes to a journalist instead. It means it goes to someone like Vanessa Steck.
Disclaimer- I love Eileen.
As a former poster at GGMB I used to love the deep discussions and sharing my passion with other like-minded fans. I turned a blind eye to a lot of the bullying and threats. I even joked that Abomb was a loving dictator, when in fact he’s more of a narcissistic bully. I didn’t realize how bad things were until I got banned. I guess I’m on of the crazy people. Or more likely, someone Abomb got tired of having around.
Matt I’ve always respected your opinions and your obvious love of the sport. I’m sorry you too turn a blind eye to other’s cruelty.
@Ally, DontRemember and all your other stupid names: Why do you keep doing this? You know damn good and well you’re not going to scare me off this blog. I’ve wasted enough time on your immature high school crap. Go away, troll.
LMAO Doc people used to think you were the sane one. Not anymore.
GGMB is full of elitist snobs and even though Matt sounds normal here he is just like them. Don’t buy it.
GGMB think it matters but as nice as some of these gymnasts are to their face there is a reason they don’t join the board and post. They know you are not all there.
Maybe you should go read the threads they have on this blog, couch gymnast and GTT and the ones they have had on Aunt Joyce in the past and you will get a clear picture on just why the people have issues with GGMB. Matt saying let us be is hilarious when you consider the way they treat people. Fact is YOU brought yourself into this by starting your latest hate threads on the places mentioned above and then came here to try and justify the way you act.
Doc did you inhale to many fumes lately? I realize your life is sad outside in the real world but your post sounds crazy. If you need a friend I will be glad to be one to you and I sincerely mean this. No one should be as sad as you.
Doc, Don’t Remember and I are not the same person.
Anyway, you fail to engage with my point, which is that in declining a credential offered to you, you were not allowing a legitimate journalist to take it instead. You were only offered it because no legitimate journalist wanted it. You can bet your ass that if someone from the New York Times rocked up and said they wanted it, they’d have got it instead. The same is true of all the bloggers who got accredited at worlds. It was either them, nobody, or someone with even less claim to it than they had.
Incidentally, although Bridget McCarthy is a rude cow, I’d much rather have her on the floor than Abomb. Shoving someone out of the way is nothing, absolutely nothing, compared to the disrespect he has shown to numerous athletes over the years.
Guys, I didn’t even start that thread. I suspect you know the person you need to talk to, since it looks like you at least read the board. And my life is doing just fine, thanks-and I do appreciate the offer. I KNOW why people have issues with GGMB. GGMB is not everyone’s cup of tea, and I’m well aware of that. That’s fine. However, you’re not going to get anywhere with attacks. And that’s what it looks like you’re doing. Now, if you want to have a civil conversation, fine. I’m willing to listen. But it’s got to be civil with NO attacks.
Doc, it’s a shame you don’t set down so many conditions about civility on GGMB. You’re happy enough to see debate smacked down with rudeness and bullying there, so it seems rather opportunistic of you to insist on it here, when you don’t have admin powers.
Anyway, whether you were the person who started the thread or not is utterly irrelevant. You’re the one who seems to think GGMB took some kind of moral high ground by refusing a spot so it could go to a journalist. But you wouldn’t have been offered it in the first place if anyone else wanted it. Certainly you weren’t the only one talking rubbish on that thread, so if anyone else wants to come here and play, away from moderation policies that protect them from looking as stupid as they are (Betty you jumped up, bullying catty little cunt, I’m looking at you) I’ll happily join in.
Leave a Comment