I’m not a figure skating fan. When I see Johnny Weir, I find it difficult to get past his appearance.
It’s too extreme. My inclination is not to watch him skate. I assume he’s more flamboyant style than substance.
And his antics play into many of the stereotypes about male figure skaters. Even gay pundits are asking: Is Johnny Weir “Too Gay” For Figure Skating? (VIDEO)
My respect for Weir climbed a notch or two after hearing him fire back at broadcasters Claude Mailhot and Alain Goldberg of RDS, a French-language sports channel in Quebec. Here’s that interview.
U.S. men’s figure skater Johnny Weir says he was ‘frankly, pissed’ upon learning that the two French-language commentators questioned his gender and made other jibes during his Olympic skating performances last week. (Feb. 24)
Click PLAY or watch his interview on YouTube.
Still, I’m more inclined to cheer (or at least smirk at) the macho antics of Silver medalist, Russia’s Yevgeny Plushenko.
Plushenko and his coach want his competitors to man up and throw quad twists. I agree.
Comments? … Should I simply give up on Figure Skating completely?
33 comments ↓
Well, I do like his style. I mean I do not earn money from their quads anyway, so why don’t I just watch something like? He is not for everyone…ew…
I would really encourage you to give johnny’s skating another try. much of the hype about his flamboyance is overrated and his skating is gorgeous. His difficulty is also incredibly high, or he wouldnt have made the olympic team to begin with. the fact is, gay lifestyle appearance aside, no high level athlete could maintain that level if they were partying, having sex, frankly having any kind of social life. he portrays some silly characters on the ice, its true. but have you watched this years long program, for example? it’s lovely and i dont find it girly at all, i find it touching. give it a try.
i would also encourage you to educate yourself further about the skating judging system. the quad is NOT the end all be all of skating. that is something that is really, a myth. is it technically difficult, yes. but point wise, a 3axel-3toe, which johnny does is worth more. but beyond that, the footwork and spins, which many consider fluff, are really very difficult, and someone like plushenko is living in the old judging system and not adjusting accordingly, doing simple spins. the equivalent is gymnastics, i suppose would be a gymnast throwing a full in, a double arabian, a twiple twist and then a single turn in dance, but MORE so, because skating spins are much much more important and difficult than turns in gymnastics, and take hours and hours and hours and days and days to perfect.
i REALLY encourage you to educate yourself further about the judging system, because especially considering that you havent watched jweirs performance, you do sound pretty ignorant in the above post.
The comments from Goldberg and Mailhot were frankly NOT acceptable. In other things, they said that he should take a feminity test or he should skate in the women’s competition… The guy did deserve some excuses.
Obviously much too complicated for the layman, much like gymnastics. And no neither I nor millions of people have either the energy or the desire to learn the intricacies of either judging system. And we should not have to, if it is a spectator sport, the system should be simple enough so that we can fundementally understand it and not having to have it endlessly clarified for us with every routine. Hell the gymnastics system is confusing enough for the judges and the coaches, and it seems skating is exactly the same. Fail, fail, fail.
Perhaps the most genuine comments about the state of skating came at the gala when the commentators were quick to note that many of the moves that brought the biggest reactions from the audience were actually “banned” in regular competition, and one of them commented how refreshing it was being able to watch and enjoy without the burden of watching for level 3 or level 4 footwork, whatever that may mean to the average layman such as myself.
Pretty ignorant?
Wow, that is an interesting take on this post. Hardly ignorant, but rather a personal opinion, that is well written, fair and honest.
Good comments all, George. Thanks.
And true of our Artistic judging system, too.
Anyone can watch the old 10.0 system in J.O. USA or College and get a “general idea” who had the best performance. That’s the real advantage of 10.0 …
I think the point isn’t whether you like Johnny, but if Johnny likes Johnny. People may find his antics unappealing, and that’s perfectly fine. But the problem arises when we call him “too gay” and question his gender. Sure, he may further stereotypes some people hold about male figure skaters, but that’s just who he is.
Think of it another way, would you be as accepting of comments that a black rapper is “too black” because they further stereotypes of black gangster life in their songs? If someone had said that we’d be calling for their heads and their jobs. If that’s not okay, then why is it okay that we call a gay man “too gay”?
That analogy with a black rapper is excellent, Jennifer. Thanks.
And you’re right. Why do I feel more comfortable challenging Johnny on his wardrobe choices than I do challenging a rapper?
The only person I can recall doing the same thing to rappers was Black director Spike Lee who did exactly that in the movie Bamboozled. The rappers were named “Big Black Africa”. He mocked them mercilessly for being “too Black”.
Only Spike Lee, an advocate for Afro-Americans, could get away with that.
http://www.notcoming.com/features/bamboozled/
I wasn’t calling the writer of this blog ignorant as a whole-I love this blog and read it all the time. but since, as he says, he can’t bring himself to watch johnny, i do think that a lot of his critique is ignorant, because he has no experience with the sport, doing it or watching it.
the judging system is actually quite simple- 2 scores, technical score and program components
TS is calculated of the jumps, spins, footwork and transitioning elements (spirals for the ladies). a technical panel determines the base value of each skill, much like in gymnastics. the difference is that in skating, the rules for gaining credit for a jump are so stringent that a jump that looks perfect to the naked eye will, with the help of super slow mo, be downgraded. much of the critique of the judging system is because of that. once the base value is determined, judges give it a GOE (grade of execution from -3 to +3) which is added on to the bad value. that all added up is the TS
the PC is 6 artistic elements, stuff like interpretation and choreography, which are all graded out of 10 and then multiplied by a factor number depending on whether it is the short or long program and also on mens vs womens skating.
falls an time deductions are 1 point deductions
for the casual fan: good scores:
Ladies SP: over 60 is good, over 70 is fantastic
Ladies LP: over 120 is good, over 135 is very good
Ladies totals over 200 are really good, usually competitions winning scores
Mens, one essentially adds 10 for the short and 15 for the long.
i really wasnt trying to be rude, because i agree the skating system is frustrating for a casual fan. but as a skater, its frustrating to have it constantly dismissed.
one final word- the problem with the quad is not that the skaters aren’t manly enough to do it, because all of them train it and many do it during the warmups for various competitions (including johnny at the olympics). The problem is that skating does not reward risk under the current system. the “double deduction” curse is essentially this: the skater who throws the quad may have 4 outcomes:
perfect jump- the base score and GOEs are appropriately high
clean but flawed jump-the skater loses the GOE’s but earns the base value (however the chances of this happening are slim to none, since any flaws on the landing usually lead to a downgrade)
under-rotated but unflawed in appearance- here the skater loses MUCHO points because they get downgraded to a triple, maybe 5 or 6 points lower, plus lose GOES because it is considered a flawed jump. in this most frustrating instance, a seemingly perfect jump goes from 12 points +3 to 6 points -2/3. THIS is why most skaters choose not to do a quad, and really it’s quite logical considering the dumb judging.
under-rotated with a fall or hand down- a quad with a fall is almost always called as an under-rotation, because the landing is clearly flawed, plus the -3 GOE plus a 1 point deduction for butt hitting ice. the skater will get literally 0 points for attempting this incredibly difficult jump
that’s just a word on why the quad is becoming so rare. and consider of course, that a quad is 4 rotations and anything more than 1/4 rotation under is considered cheated and loses the base value. going at that speed and considering the rounded nature of a landing edge, under-rotation calls are very subjective and a UR jump might look perfect to the naked eye.
i hope this sheds some light on the topic, and i’m sorry if what i said before came off as snotty.
I love Johnny and this is probably my favorite interview this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWlj1CVZpSs
Johnny’s awesome!!!! So he’s a bit flamboyant and uber camp, who cares? He’s skating ability is undeniably fantastic, even if he isn’t as good or consistent as some, and he’s presentation is beautiful. And for those of you that haven’t seen it, his gala to Poker Face is genius. He just plays up his gayness, he’s still a great skater.
I don’t understand the scoring but I’m not that interested in that part. I do, however, like Johnny Weir- I like that he is not afraid to show who he is. Knowing full well he is probably putting 50% of the USA (who are his potential supporters) offside with his flamboyant style, he keeps true to himself. Its not easy to be gay in general, let alone being ‘too gay’. Good on him!
The beauty of Johnny is that he is who he is all the time. It doesn’t matter if your a reporter or a high ranking official or his friend he is going to do and be himself. So many athletes put up a fake, PC, or sterile version of themselves up so we are just not used to it.
When it comes to his skating, actually watch it, look past the costumes as I have to do with 75% of the skaters anyway : )
If you think that throwing a quad– no matter how poor the quality, and Plushenko’s were pretty poor– is more important than all the other things that go into figure skating as it exists as a sport (other jumps with clean landings, spins, the execution of a full range of skating vocabulary), then you should probably give up on it. I’ve been a gymnast and a figure skater, and I hope to God skating never throws quality to the wind in favour of quantity the way gymnastics has.
I’m a huge fan of Johnny Weir. What he does in the ice is a lot less about his flamboyance than the media would like for you to believe. He has superior technique, and nice clean edges when he skates. His spins are paralleled by very few, Stephane Lambiel being the only current skater that I would say hits better positions than him. Listen to Dick Button’s expert commentary on the flow that Johnny has (or at least HAD prior to last year’s disaster) on the ice during Nationals in 04/05/06, or even the commentary during 2008. I could go on and on, but I won’t–you’re entitled to your opinion, although I respectfully disagree with it, having been a longtime fan of the sport.
The quad, on the other hand, is something that I take huge issue with. First of all, not to be rude, but if you’re going to post an opinion on a sport, you should at least research it enough to know that quadruple jumps are NOT at all the same as quad twists. Twists are something done in pairs competition, when a male partner throws a female partner into the air, she twists, and he catches her. A quadruple JUMP, on the other hand, is a jump. Depending on the take-off/landing, it has several different names quad salchow/quad loop/quad toe loop, etc.
Secondly, while I agree that more skaters should be doing the quad, it is certainly not the end all, be all of the sport. In the gymnastics world, no one high level skill is considered more important than all of the others. The same IS the case in figure skating; Plushenko just won’t accept that. Nastia Liukin, for example, managed to win a very well-deserved gold medal in the all-around in 2008, but she didn’t have ALL of the top skills. In fact, as I recall, there was a lot of talk about how Nastia didn’t have the start values as far as difficulty to compete with, say, Shawn Johnson. But there was a lot more to Nastia’s gymnastics than just start value, just as there is a lot more to a Johnny Weir or an Evan Lysacek’s skating than just the difficulty added by the quad.
Perhaps you should watch some of Wier’s earlier programs.
Well … from the comments I’m reading here, it sounds like Johnny is a world class skater. And has passionate fans. Good luck to him.
The sport, aside from Ice Dance, has never had much natural attraction to me. I’ll stop commenting on figure skating on this blog, as I avoided mentioning it in the first years of it’s existence. My old rule was “… if it doesn’t flip, it’s not acrobatics”.
Hey…I didn’t even have to go there! You can’t blame this on Polytroll!
BTW, here is an article on masculinity of skating, gym and snowboarding:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/02/figureskaters-v-halfpipers.html
Nastia should not have gotten the AA. She had worse skills and worse form than Shawn. There was way too much “figure skating” style body type judging going on, rather than hard core sports judging.
I think if you put aside all the ridiculous gender issues surrounding this very talented skater, you will see that Johnny Weir is popular for a lot of reasons that Nastia Liukin is popular: (a) the classic beauty of his lines and technique, and the emotion he conveys and inspires through his unique combination of athletics and aesthetics; and (b) his drive to bounce back from public defeat and criticism, combined with private doubts and distractions. It’s like the Chinese proverb – fall down seven times and get up eight – and I think whether gay or not, masculine or not, “flamboyant” or not, Weir is an inspiration to all of us – gymnasts, skaters, athletes, ordinary people – who have faced adversity and overcome it to continue working towards goals. It may be cliched, but he does set an example and the way he conducts himself in public – any personality traits aside – clearly communicates the importance of key themes that a lot of people embrace, e.g. passion for beauty and artistry, personal integrity, the importance of family, an ethos of hard work and dedication, etc.
I believe that if skating officials truly want to bring a bigger audience into their events, into the sport, they need to embrace their athletes’ differences. In an age where equity and diversity is being constantly developed to ensure opportunities exist for everyone, regardless of sex, gender, race or religion, surely everyone should be willing to look past such prejudices and embrace a person for his/her technical/artistic prowess. Sure, his/her personality may influence your preferences for a certain athlete, but it shouldn’t automatically spark an irrelevant debate and preclude that athlete from serious consideration as a contender in the sport.
And anybody who sides with Plushenko in this debate can never again complain about Zou Kai winning medals with his crappy form.
Johnny Weir rocks, for all the reasons others have stated and more.
At least he’s true to himself.
i think your comments are a little homophobic rick. i love your blog. maybe i misunderstood what you’re saying. you can’t watch this guy because he’s too flamboyant?
I don’t consider myself homophobic. But I’m tempted to switch channels to 50km cross country skiing before Johnny starts to skate.
No worries, though, Rosa. I’ve decided to ban myself from commenting on all figure skating. I’m not worthy.
I see TCO is back.
Hi Rick, I don’t think it’s the fact that you brought up figure skating, which is great – you are more than entitled to comment on anything you like, this is your blog. BUT your approach really did surprise me. I love this blog because all your posts, whether on coaching tips, interesting skills or competition results, ALWAYS somehow display your love of the sport. I find it interesting, engaging and entertaining. In your stories there is often a good quality of balance, with arguments on both sides when you’re addressing a topical story. You have done that here, of course, but the fact that you led off with “I’m not a figure skating fan. When I see Johnny Weir, I find it difficult to get past his appearance” is the thing that surprised and disappointed me. You say you’re not a homophobic and I believe you, but as a respected coach of young athletes who might be like Johnny Weir or look up to him, and as a blogger, I think you need to think a little more about your APPROACH before you comment on something you admittedly know relatively little about. Again, that’s not to say you should stay away from skating, because that’s not the issue in your blog today. The issue is judging people on their appearance and mannerisms, rather than their performances. Wouldn’t you be upset if someone did that to you or one of your gymnasts? I love your blog Rick, keep up the excellent work! I hope you see that I really do appreciate your opinions and hard work in keeping it running, and this has been a wonderful forum for a discussion, but one that should hardly need to take place any longer.
I can see where you are coming from, but that old adage “don’t judge a book by its cover” should come back and smack you in the face
At least give someone a chance before you start writing opinions about that. I think that’s the main THEME of the comments here Rick 
You don’t sound homophobic or even ignorant to me, just maybe jumping the gun a bit and not practicing good “blogalism”.
I’m with Rick on this one. You don’t have to be homophobic to be turned off by extreme flamboyancy. And while many may applaud Johnny for his choices there are just as many, like myself and obviously Rick, who are just plain turned off by it. I personally believe that you don’t have to be over the top to get your point across, but then I also tend to be conservative in many public related displays.
Gymnastics has had it’s share of “different” performers as well, Ioannis Melissanidis immmediately springs to mind. And although I can acknowledge his brilliance and technique in tumbling, after seeing him warm up at a major international competition in white translucent pantyhose was just too much of a visual fo me, and quite frankly I have not watched him since. In my opinion there is no place in our sport for such a display and the fact that it was thrown at myself and thousands of others without my knowledge and consent just bothers me. If you want to do this in private that’s one thing but using the world or Olympic stage to do it is another matter entirely.
There is a lot to be said for athletes who are professional enough to maintain the public image of their chosen sport, especially at the international level, but they are certainly more than welcome to exercise their “individuality” offline. Everybody seems to be all over the professional athletes in football, hockey etc. about being good role models and watching their public image, why not amateur sports as well?
Good comparison, George. Ioannis Melissanidis was a superb gymnast. His gold medal Floor in the Olympics one of the greatest routines of all time.
Perhaps because I am expert in gymnastics I can dismiss his flamboyance and appreciate the athletic genius.
But I only watch figure skating every 2 years, or so. I don’t understand the judging. I can’t really tell if a skater finishes a jump. To me Johnny looks underpowered compared with the Japanese guys. But I certainly could be wrong.
As a casual spectator I’d change channels on Johnny. But not on Melissanidis.
… best I stop watching figure skating altogether. Fans are too quick to jump on an outsider who thinks Johnny might be sabotaging his scores by being so polarizing to the general public.
Your opinion counts Rick, and I agree with you entirely. I am not homophobic (anyone who knows me understands this) and neither are you, in my opinion. I think you practice great “blogalism”. Keep it coming!
poly, this article has nothing to do with gymnastics, let alone a specific competition in gymnastics. please stick with relevant comments.
I’d just like to add that there was nothing admirable about Plushenko’s complaining, whining, poor sportsmanship or his website bizarre version of revisionist history. If say Shawn had started bitching about how she had harder tumbling or that she really earned a platinum medal in the all around she’d be labeled a brat. Johnny was by contrast extremely gracious in his defeat.
I’d also add that the figure skating world, especially the US Figure Skating Association bends over backwards to potray skating as a masculine, manly heterosexual sport and have not exactly been supportive of Weir’s behavior. I admire him for being true to his own personality rather than trying to closet himself.
i don’t give a d— (“darn”) about figure skating and until 2 weeks ago had never heard of Johnny Weir….
and of course, saw his (especially) short skate as ‘over the top’
as the Aussies say, “Good on’ ya, Johnnie…”
true to himself and his vision, apparently a man and athlete with by the standards of our society, REAL
integrity and personal confidence…..
i don’t and won’t watch figure skating, but i think Johnny Weir is a helluva man to stand tall (however ‘willowy’, lol!) for who he is and what he believes.
serious
ps. LOVED the CCCP warmup they showed on NBC here in the US!
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