by site editor Rick McCharles
A couple of weeks ago I posted a comparison between Jordyn Wieber (USA) and Viktoria Komova (Russia):
Almost everyone on the IG forum that commented likes Komova better. I think I’ll bet on Weiber. If she can stay healthy training all that difficulty, she’ll be tough to beat. …
My thinking was that you MUST do an Amanar to medal in the AA at in 2012.
Here’s skinny little Viktoria Komova doing Amanar at the Mikhail Voronin Cup competition. Click PLAY or watch it on YouTube.
live.breath.love gymnastics:
At the rate Viktoria Komova is going she will be World All-Around Champion by a longshot! She threw an amanar vault, the patterson dismount on beam, a stellar floor set, and a new low to high bar transition at the Veronin Cup. Amazing!!! …
Perhaps I’d best concede that of the dozen or so top Juniors, Viktoria Komova is the girl to beat.
You can quote me.
… Now, why haven’t I heard anyone complain about “too much difficulty” for Komova. Does she really need to risk that vault now, so far in advance of the Olympics 2012? … UPDATE: Apparently many have been saying exactly this about her. I’ve not seen it.
Her Bars are already great. Click PLAY or watch it on YouTube.
Love the Tkachev to Pak. Full swing.
UPDATE: Senor Nico translated an interview with Viktoria and her coach, Gennady Elfimov:
… By the way, regarding injuries, I see that you bandage her ankles…
G.E. – This is a precaution from injuries. We put special arch supports under her heels to protect her feet on landings. These supports only work when wrapped with a bandage. Otherwise, nothing is going on. So we bandage her.
read the entire interview and commentary – IG Forum – “Gimnastika” Magazine Interviews
19 comments ↓
I’m not holding my breath for either Wieber or Komova – they’re both, what, 13? Injury will plague them first.
I’ve heard plenty of people complain that Komova is competing too much difficulty and I certainly don’t see a reason why any junior (be it Weiber or Komova) needs to be competing an Amanar at this stage.
Having said that, I think we’ll see her go back down to slightly less difficult, safer, routines for next year. It seems that the Voronin Cup was probably just being used to experiment with elements that she’ll be using once she goes senior. A lot of the other Russian juniors were also throwing new elements and experimental routines at this meet.
Komova will be 15 in a month.
Am I the only one who see’s how bad Komova’s form is? Why am I the only one that notices it?
Yup. It’s bad. All the top Juniors have bad form. An unintended consequence of the new code.
We need to go back to Courtney McCool 2004 to see a “best gymnast in the world” with superb form.
… Shawn had good “form”, but I never liked her body positions.
Coaches of the Juniors would respond …
“We need the difficulty now. For the next 2 years we’ll not add new skills, but rather stabilize and perfect the routine”.
That was the strategy of Peng Peng Li, for example.
… But we haven’t seen Peng Peng in a long time.
um, Rick, I think you have a typo:
“We need to go back to Courtney McCool 1984 to see a “best gymnast in the world” with superb form.”
Unless there’s another Courtney McCool that I don’t know about, the Courtney McCool that was on the 04 Olympic team wasn’t born until 1988.
Going go to add… I don’t understand why people think she’s so great. She’s not. Yes she has the difficulty but her form is quite disgusting.
Ha. I’ll fix that. Thanks!
Can someone give me an example of a gymnast that had bad form as a junior, and did amazing difficulty, and later had great form? I cannot think of one.
I agree with Rick that this is the thinking of many coaches, but I’m not sure that I have seen it happen in reality. I could be wrong, and will admit so if someone can enlighten me. I agree with jakie, though. Komova is throwing some “stuff”, but her technique is not solid. Too much arching into skills and way too much hip flexor. These are the kinds of things that usually cannot be fixed without major work and time. In theory, if she were to remain 100% healthy over the next 2 years, and already had these kinds of skills, then maybe you could go back and correct these errors. But, in practicality, the likelihood is that the majority of her time will be spent maintaining these skills during the times when she is able to train, and then trying to add even more difficulty if she is lucky enough to be healthy for any extended amount of time.
If I were a gambling man (and I kind of am), I would bet that she won’t even be around at the time of the next Olympics, but that, if she is, her technique will be pretty much the same, with the possibility of a few more occasions of pointed feet and a couple of times of straighter legs, and that will be it.
Sorry to be so cynical, but I believe I have history to back me up on this. I am open to correction, however, so please comment and let me know.
Nastia was incredibly loose as a young gymnast. Made many mistakes. Plenty of falls. And went on to win the Olympics.
One example.
Chelsea Memmel had horrible form and technique as a little girl. And got much, much better.
But, like Troy, I much prefer gymnasts like Courtney McCool. For all his faults, the gymnasts produced by Al Fong are to be admired. They have terrific form.
I don’t understand what people are on about her form? Its not flawless (not as good as McCool or Shapiro) but for a junior it isn’t to bad at this moment. With time I would hope that once she settles into a routine, she will clean up little form errors. Otherwise she is doing good basics, straight arms on bars, hitting HS, its good.
I think she will go quite well in 2012
Just my opinion, but I still don’t consider Chelsea or Nastia to have outstanding technique.
Their shapes are not great, and they make up for incorrect technique by cowboying somersaults and sheer repetition.
Don’t get me wrong…I have great respect for what each of them have accomplished and they have done great things for which they should be proud, but I would never put them in a category with Courtney McCool or the nearly perfect Lashenova.
So, I still stand by my original point…if technique is not addressed at a young age, I do not believe it can be “re-done” at a later date.
Valentin…my objections about most gymnasts at this level are not major, but simply things that I feel are technical areas that have been skipped over because of the incredible talent of the gymnast and the ridiculous demands of the sport at that level. With Komova in particular, she arches every cast, her ribs are out at the begining and end of every giant including the forward ones, and she has way too much hip-flexion at the end of her giants. The “drops” into her “in-bar”work are too archy for me as well, but I realize that some people consider that an acceptable technique, so I will concede that one.
Having said all of that, I am not sure that there is much that coaches can do about this, as I am not sure that the system that we have evolved to will allow it. I’m not sure that these girls can do what is necessary to be competitive at these levels if they were to spend the time it would take to avoid those technical errors.
As I’ve said many times before, our sport needs to re-evaluate itself and get back to a place where we can reward difficulty, but not take away the aesthetics that made it the most popular spectator sport in the world at one time. If we could do that, we would be doing a tremendous service to the athletes, as it would cut down on the rate of injuries to them.
I m of the opinion that no gymnast has perfect form ever and the whole issues of cowboying really annoys me. Especially when referencing the bygone era of Soviet gymnastics- there were many Soviets who did not have the best technique- granted many of their gymnast difficulty was ahead of the rest of the world and I do miss the whole Soviet style. But come on natalia laschenova had a huge cowboy on her double back on floor- I mean knees were miles apart. Valeri had a huge cowboy on this triple. It’s a technique- is it the best maybe not.
The OLD rule used in judging men I like. Straddling a salto was a “technique” if nobody had showed the skill with knees together. No deduction for Liukin on Floor.
Long ago you could cowboy triple back off Horizontal Bar. When some started doing it with knees together, cowboy began to be deducted.
There’s no logic like that in WAG judging. Unfortunately.
Cowboying when Lashenova did it was more acceptable, I think. Cowboying now, in my opinion, is not. It was almost a necessity back then. These athletes now are tumbling on floors that are like trampolines compared to back then. Lashenova, in 1989, did a double layout (with her feet together), and 3 double tucks (one from a jump to a lunge, another from a whip bhs and one at the end of the routine) on a floor that was barely more springy than a wrestling mat. Hardly a comparison to Nastia’s weak tumbling on a floor that Lashenova would have done double-doubles on.
And, my comments before, were more directed toward bars than tumbling. The bad tap technique of many of these athletes leads to weak or compromised dismounts and releases, in my opinion.
Laschenova also trained triples and no doubt she was told to cowboy her legs to make it around.
I can think of lots of juniors that were messy and then came back with great difficulty (for their time) and cleaned up, as well. Miller and Gutsu come to mind. Gutsu never quite had the great form we were used to from Soviets but if you take a look at her videos from 1991 and compare them to Europeans at 1992 (her true peak IMO, not the Olympics, but form was better there too) you will see a huge difference in bars and vault in particular. Miller had some sloppy bar and vault work early on, and her beam was sloppier but she cleaned herself up quite nicely.
There are countless examples of this if you do some research. Do I think it’s right or correct? Not really. In some cases, I think there is only so much technique you can beat into a kid. In other cases, proper technique saves the body first and foremost, among other advantages. I think a lot of coaches get these kids, who are normally insanely talented, to get by on strength/talent/flexibility and it’s not always right or wrong but I do wish it were emphasized more – it’s clearly do-able if you’re that talented and driven.
TP – I agree with most of what you said. Miller is a great example of improved FORM over the years, as I remember watching her in person when she was 12.
My point though, is still not really about form, but about body shapes and techniques. Straight legs and pointed toes are one thing, but hollow body shapes with straight hip joints, proper tap technique and things like lunges into tumbling are, to me, another thing completely. I’m still not sure that I’ve seen anyone who had developed bad technique due to a little bit of a rush through certain skills ever change that later on, at least not to a large degree.
As I said before, I’m not sure that it is possible, with the system in place, to train an athlete to that difficulty level while training the correct shapes and techniques along the way. Heck, we can’t even do it with what is required in levels 9 and 10 to the degree we would like. So, in other words, this may all be completely moot.
i can add that i think komova has good lines and forms just like nastia. think thats one of the reasons why she is on top.
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