The other day International Gymnastics Federation President Bruno Grandi was quoted as saying:
Did he know this study was about to be announced?
BEIJING — X-ray bone analysis of 15,000 young Chinese athletes shows about 20 percent have lied about their ages, provincial sports authorities say.
The analysis was conducted by sports officials in southern Guangdong province and reported on the Web site of the Southern Metropolis Daily.
The confirmation of age-faking again puts pressure on Chinese sports officials. Several of China’s gold-medal winning female gymnasts at last year’s Olympics were widely suspected of being underage, although they were later cleared by officials of the sport’s world governing body.
…
The southern city of Guangzhou will host next year’s Asian Games, and provincial officials appear to be cracking down beforehand.
“We won’t allow those who faked their age to get any benefit at all,” said Ye Xiquan, deputy director of the provincial sports bureau.
ESPN – The Associated Press
How long before the IOC and FIG must decide what to do with age cheat Olympic medalists from 2000 and 2008?
If they do penalize those athletes, why not go back to other admitted age cheats from earlier Olympics?
I expect the coming media storm will focus on He Kexin, our Olympic Bars Champion.
Telegraph – One in five of China’s athletes lie about their age
Likely it’s coincidence, but new FIG Scientific Commission chair Keith Russell comes from University of Saskatchewan, a world leader in bone density research. Professor Russell did a study on wrist x-ray of gymnasts many years ago.
It’s very difficult to determine exact age by any scientific means. But the scrutiny of real assessment, rather than the blanket cover-up we had during the Beijing Olympics, will result in some athletes coming forward and admitting their actual birth date. Baby photos, date stamped, will turn up.
The truth will out. It’s only a matter of time.
28 comments ↓
They should all be penalized. Including ones all the way back. that is how steroids is handled. They will go way back. Only a complete draconian sanction is fair and reasonable in sports. Don’t be a wussy anti capital punishment Canadian.
“Don’t be a wussy anti capital punishment Canadian.”
Do you add this final comment just to get a rise out of us Canadian’s?
They should have to give their medals back. Its cheating and that’s not right.
Not sure how much you can tell from bone density, especially when gymnastics has such an impact on the body.
They tested Jade Barbosa’s bones in her hand and said they were the like the bones of a 50 year old. I’m pretty sure she isn’t 50 though.
If it turns out that they are underage they should go back all the way. Its not fair for people before that to get away with it but not now. They should also have to give the metals back. And give the people below them their right metals. For example they should give Nastia the gold metal and Yang Yilin the silver and Beth the bronze. They deserve it.
If you’re going to have a rule, then you have to enforce the rule, otherwise get rid of the rule. I don’t agree that it’s a good rule, but it’s there, so abide by it.
However, that being said: Personally, I think He Kexin did the best bar set, she does an amazing bar set, and she deserved that medal. 9 years old, 12 years old, 35 years old, who cares, the best in the world is the best in the world. Of course, taking a medal away from a 14 year old girl who likely had little to no say in lying about her age isn’t exactly going to teach anyone a lesson. It may just be my line of thinking, but it all comes back to the coach. If the coach is coaching reasonably, and taking care and consideration in training the athlete, then I don’t care if the girl is so freakishly talented that she can compete on that level at that age. It very well could be her only chance. And more likely than not, the coach, the gym, the organization, and everyone up the chain had more say in the deception than the actual girl herself. So if anyone should be punished, it should be those who broke the rule, not the tool they used to break it. She can keep the medal. Ban the coach for a cycle, fine the gym, whatever. But snatching her medal away stinks of petty jealousy.
If our best athletes can’t beat their best athletes flat out, then who cares if they violated the age rule. Was there someone we wanted to take but couldn’t? I’m not aware of it. Was there someone we thought was better, but we kept her home because it was the wrong year? Maybe, but I doubt it.
This isn’t a Barry Bonds situation. She won. She was better. We lost. We had a lot to be proud of, but we can’t win everything. Let’s get over it, move on, get back in the gym and fix our own stuff, and try again next time.
Did it work?
(for Tracy)
Taking away the medal from the 14 year old will totally teach a lesson. It’s not about the 14 year old anyhow. It’s about the country. And realistically…she is part of the cheeting also. She’s not two. She’s 14. Let’s hold her accountable. People are fighting and dying all over the globe. We can hold a gymnast accountable without getting all liberal wussy about it.
I agree with both… In terms it will punish her but it will also Punish China because China will loose face which is a huge issue in Chinese culture. However, it isn’t partly fair to the girls as they don’t really have a huge say in their training like they do here. They say no to something and not only they lose money but their families (who need it as well) do as well.
I think they, if found guilty, should have to give back all the medals they won, including team medals. They broke a rule. Breaking a rule needs to be punished.
Oh, ok. Well, we’ll let that 14 year old girl who was probably told “do this, or you’ll never see a gym again as long as you live,” take the blame. Afterall, she’s so totally likely to have the courage to stand up and tell her coach, parents, government, etc. that cheating is wrong, and she shouldn’t do it. 14 year old girls are, after all, known for being pillars of personal integrity unwilling to succumb to the pressures of their peer group. I’m sure China would be super understanding of her moral and ethical concerns, what with how awesomely free they are. And as far as a country, I’m pretty sure the 3 billion people in China have other things to worry about. And way to weave in an argument about how people are fighting and dying all over the world. Because that’s sooooo relevant to a discussion about gold medals arbitrarily awarded in a non-mandatory athletic just-for-fun competition which has exactly no meaning or purpose but that which we may or may not choose to apply to it…way to stay on point there Ace.
PS. If you noticed a sarcastic tone in this message, good for you, because I was laying it on pretty thick.
(that last message of mine was directed only at Apolytongp, no one else.)
I’m not blaming the 14 year old. She doesn’t exist in the first place. She’s just a tool of the state. You liberal Al Queda lover. Plus supposedly she is 16 anyhow.
Just a question.. is it possible that these girls don’t even know how old they actually are? I have a friend born in a country in Africa who, when we were all getting drivers licences wasn’t sure if he was 15 or 16 because the record keeping there isn’t up to scratch. If you tell a kid from the age of 4 that they are 6 do they know any better? Perhaps these girls aren’y actually aware of their own age and then shouldn’t be punished.
As someone posted already, the rule can not be enforced and so should be removed. It is not feasible to rely on the honesty of these nations and not realistically possible to expose falsified documents when you are up against a stealthy government power
The whole idea that if a rule can’t be enforced, that it should be removed is just retarded. Here in Washington State, talking on a cell phone while driving is against the law. However, it’s a secondary offense which means the police officer can’t pull you over for just that, there has to be something else. Thus there is a problem enforcing the rule. However, it’s still a good rule because talking on phone impairs your judgment just as much as being drunk. It just needs work. Eventually the law will become a first offense.
Ahem.
Apolytongp: “And realistically…she is part of the cheeting also. She’s not two. She’s 14. Let’s hold her accountable.”
Then:
Apolytongp: “I’m not blaming the 14 year old. She doesn’t exist in the first place. She’s just a tool of the state.”
This is called “having your cake and eating it too.” Or, sometimes it is also called “has no idea what he’s talking about.”
As for loving Al Qaeda? Try making a point, with reason, articulated through English, rather than just making inflammatory remarks in an attempt to compensate for your lack of actual ideas. Now I understand why everyone complains about your posts. But you probably like that, it makes you feel “cool” to be hated. You can respond if you want, but I’m done with you. This is a gymnastics blog, not a rant-and-rave Craigslist posting.
The bottom line is, the girls just want to compete gymnastics. They have no say in what their country or government does. He Kexin does an amazing bar routine. If I were a gymnast or coached a gymnast who took second place to her, I’d accept that she beat me, and I’d move on and try to become better. I’d find no solace in being gifted her first place medal because she was younger than me.
USA!
If the truth is determined to be the the Chinese girls were underage and the FIG and IOC do nothing about it, it’s wrong. They then need to give Andrea Raducan back her gold medal for the 2000 Olypmics and give the 1988 US WAG team it’s bronze medal. If you don’t enforce the rules then what is the point of them?
Yes, I know some say He Kexin had a better routine than Nastia but it’s a subjective opinion. I thought Nastia’s routine was better. To be completely honest I thought Yang Yilin had the best set of the night and yet she wound up with the bronze, go figure.
The fact that the gymnasts had no choice in the matter is true but it does not have any bearing on the issue, if it is determined that there were underage members on the Chinese team. Punish the Chinese federation by banning them from competition, both WAG and MAG, for the next 8 years and strip the team of its medal and the underage individuals of any individual medals.
Wow – what a ridiculous load of nonsense I have just read.
Indeed, it is a gymnastics blog, not a political view page. I live in the USA and am proud of my wussy anti-capital punishment homeland. But this isn’t the place to debate our political views nor sling such rude comments. Grow up.
Apolytongp? Not really.
Some facts –
The statue of limitations stripping medals from Olympic doping offenders is 8 years, so not even all the dopers could have their medals taken away.
For non doping offenses, the statute of limitation runs out 3 years after the date of the closing ceremony, so why anyone was even talking about investigating Yang Yun et al was a bunch of hot air.
The 2008 Chinese WAG situation is complicated by the fact that prior to the Games there was almost as much evidence as their is now that some of the Chinese girls were underage, and for obvious reasons, nothing was done about it at the time.
The IOC can bar athletes for ANY or NO reason if that organization feels an athletes presence would be a detriment to the games. Greek sprinter Ekaterina Thanou was barred from Beijing. She has never failed a drug test – just missed some because of a “motorcycle accident” that probably never happened.
There was no way something similar was going to happen to the Chinese gymnasts when the games were in China, especially absent anything concrete like a positive or missed drug test.
If the IOC thought these girls were “old” enough to compete in Beijing, they are “old” enough to keep their medals…unless one of them flat out admits she lied about her age, which will never happen.
Ono No Komachi says …
“The statue of limitations stripping medals from Olympic doping offenders is 8 years, so not even all the dopers could have their medals taken away.
For non doping offenses, the statute of limitation runs out 3 years after the date of the closing ceremony …”
Where did you see this Ono?
It’s news to me.
Yes Tracy, the “grow up” comment was directed specifically for Apolytongp. I love reading this blog, and the relevant commentary. If I wanted to read or hear the crap spewed by A, there are plenty of places to find that. Let’s keep on point. Thanks to the rest of you for your informative, intelligent opinions.
Coach Rick:
I saw the rules described in the Olympic Charter:
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_122.pdf
“Notwithstanding the applicable rules and deadlines for all arbitration and appeal procedures, and subject to any other provision of the World Anti-Doping Code, no decision
taken by the IOC concerning an edition of the Olympic Games, including but not limited to competitions and their consequences such as rankings or results, can be challenged by anyone after a period of three years from the day of the Closing Ceremony of such Games.”
The 8 year statute of limitations for doping offenses comes from the WADA code.
WADA really only got started after Sydney, so all the dopers prior to those games have pretty much gotten away with it if they were not caught right away.
I don’t know the answer to this, but it’s relevant to the current discussion. Does anyone know if any of the East German female swimmers had medals stripped? A lot of those athletes have pretty much admitted they were using anabolic steroids (although many of them didn’t know it at the time – like the Chinese girls, they lived in a totalitarian state and did what they were told).
From what I hear Al Quaeda has an amazing gymnastics team. Unfortunately, those long robes, machine guns, and bombs get in the way of the dismount. They tend to explode on impact, so sticking the landing is always tricky.
Gotta love the sarcasm to break up the ridiculous comments.
“The whole idea that if a rule can’t be enforced, that it should be removed is just retarded. Here in Washington State, talking on a cell phone while driving is against the law. However, it’s a secondary offense which means the police officer can’t pull you over for just that, there has to be something else. Thus there is a problem enforcing the rule. However, it’s still a good rule because talking on phone impairs your judgment just as much as being drunk. It just needs work. Eventually the law will become a first offense.”
You can see if someone is talking on their cell phone while they are driving. The problem with the age limit is you can’t tell how old someone is just by looking at them. You need documents as proof and they can be forged. In some countries more easily than others.
And no one is going to die if 12 year old girls compete in the Olympics…unlike if someone drives while yakking on a cell.
I coached 10yrs at the University of Saskatchewan, a word research centre in bone density. All gymnasts were tested multiple times during different research studies.
Turns out gymnasts have the best bone density of any athlete, a huge PLUS, especially for the females.
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