The German Press quoting our International Gymnastic Federation boss on an old issue:
Bruno Grandi has said that there were believable indications that China had cheated with the age of some of their gymnasts at the Beijing Olympics last year.
‘There were strong indications, but I did not handle the investigation. I had to accept the official documents that I was shown at face-value, I am not a policeman or Interpol,’ he told the German gymnastics magazine Leon.
‘If I find out that there was cheating, I can act. I gave everything to the IOC and they investigated the issue. They gave us their findings and we looked at them, but there was nothing.’
He said that if people found forged documents on the internet they would have to have legal proof that they were forged. ‘I have to respect the documents that the Chinese state gives me. What else should I do – declare war on China?’
In Beijing rumours surfaced that Chinese gymnasts He Kexin, Jiang Yuyan and Yang Yilin had not yet obtained the Olympic minimum age of 16 after reports were shown that gave the age of the gymnasts as just 13 in 2007.
But nobody could provide proof that the documents used for Olympic registration had been forged.
The former US gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi said at the time that age-cheating was like doping. ‘Official documents from a totalitarian system are meaningless,’ he said.
So, Grandi thinks they cheated. (As do I.) … But puts the blame on the IOC.
… Could be that some new information is just about to come to light? Grandi covering his butt, in advance.
His blaming IOC is a good ruse. Except that it was Grandi that promised a second investigation into age cheating for Chinese gymnasts Yang Yun and Dong Fangxiao at the 2000 Olympics.
FIG never followed through on that promise.
I simply cannot believe anything Grandi says on the issue.
He Kexin – Welt Online
For the record, I feel that age cheats discovered after the fact should keep their medals. That the Federation get the penalty. And any adult officials complicit in the cover-up.
Further, that FIG drop the minimum age requirement.
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“For the record, I feel that age cheats discovered after the fact should keep their medals. That the Federation get the penalty. And any adult officials complicit in the cover-up.
Further, that FIG drop the minimum age requirement.”
I agree.
I was wondering what had happened with the Yang Yun/Dong Fangxiao investigation. Are you sure the FIG never investigated them? Eh, you’d think they’d at least have formally cleared them.
I, for one, like the principles behind the age requirement – keeping gymnastics a “women’s” sport, protecting children, etc, etc. But after this Beijing fiasco I really think that, in practice, it doesn’t work. The age limit doesn’t ensure – at all – that young gymnasts are any more protected, only that they train extra years and delay puberty even more. And we’ve certainly seen that age is easy enough to falsify and that the FIG lacks a backbone about these issues.
I have been thinking, what if the FIG tested athlete’s bone density, to make sure the gymnasts were at least minimally healthy? Would that be realistic? I do think they need SOME sort of rule.
There are procedures that an individual can get done to determine age
Procedures that can be done to determine an individual’s exact age:
- xray of the wrist, hip, ankle, pelvis in children
- xray of the elbow/shoulder, skull, vertebrae in adults
- dental examination (only gives a rough estimate based on 2nd molars at 12 years old and wisdom teeth at 18 years)
- extract tooth enamel
How accurate are these tests does anyone know??
I don’t see taking some xrays of the athletes to be too invasive to ask that they get these procedures done prior to competitions like the world championships or Olympic Games. And they’d only have to get them done once when they enter the international scene.
I think athletes should be tested on their skill and ability and all other factors such as age, bone density etc should be left alone. As if it’s not tough enough to do today’s insane difficulty requirements, we should be subjecting them to invasive procedures. Where do you want to draw the line? Biopsies? Lie detectors? Interrogations? What a great payoff for years and years of hard work to get to the world stage and be considered a cheater by everybody as soon as you arrive.
As if it’s already not bad enough that they cannot take the same medication as any spectator or official at the same competition. “Protected” by the very same people who can legally (or illegaly) abuse the same substances that would cost them their medals in a heartbeat. Enough already.
Why is it that we have such a hard time doing anything that is right for the athletes themselves? If you happen to be the best in the world at age 12 then by all means you should have the right to be allowed to showcase your ability on the world stage. And if you really are good enough, to win that medal and status that goes along with it. I think that’s a more appropriate payback, no?
Good God Katrina, that’s exactly what I was talking about. Why don’t we enlist the help of somebody like Josef Mengele, I believe he can give us some more brilliant ideas. What’s the last time you had to get your tooth enamel extracted to get a job or a driver’s licence or anything else? Or an X-ray or anything else for that matter? And how would you feel if that was the requirement?
Sigh…
Katrina, the x-rays of the tests don’t really tell age all that well. It’s easier to tell with actual bones, meaning the subject has to be dead so that doesn’t work. The only true age test with a living subject is the dental pics but they aren’t all that actuate either (I’m 24 and I don’t have wisdom teeth
)
George N. Taking tooth enamel isn’t all that complicated…
While I don’t advocate hurting people, I think the age rule is a good thing but there needs to be a process to circumvent cheating.
Cheats coming to light after the fact should lose their medals. That is how doping is handled. It should just be done the same way. And if a single member of the team cheated, the overall team medal is lost. That is how the handle sprint relays. It’s simple and efficient. Even with this, there are still incentives to cheat. But, no. No cheats should be allowed to keep medals. That’s just wussy Canadianism.
I don’t see Grandi or anyone else involved with the FIG to let up on the age issue any time soon. Therefore I was just offering the readers of this blog the tests that available to living humans to test for age if we want to be as FAIR as possible.
Do I personally agree with the age rule? NO! Do I completely agree with our athletes being subjected to xrays etc to determine their age? SORT OF… what ever it takes to stop governments from cheating. Because we all know it’s the governments that are falisifying ages, not the coaches or athletes.
I agree with your closing statements. I really think that age minimums are just a ruse to pretend like the governing bodies of gymnastics care for and protect their athletes. However, it does little to nothing. You still have to start training relatively young and keep that training up for well over a decade to get your chance on the big stage. How is that fair – prolonging their training to get a chance at their goal? Yes there are some exceptions (Furnon, K Johnson) who started much later and got their chance. But that is NOT the norm.
The age being raised were all answers to scandals to shut people up. There is no need to keep the best in the world from competing just because he/she was born at the wrong time.
TP, then what’s stopping coaches from pushing these girls (and I say girls is that because most of these cases deal with girls) and so they’re throwing big tricks at age 9? How is this going to affect them later on in life? The governing body should not only be concerned with the health and well being of the athletes at the time that they’re competing but as well as after.
For example, there was just study recently released that many men who play semi pro (say college) and pro football have long-term brain damage. The leagues are now starting to look into how to help not only the athletes on the field but after their careers are over.
This is why I’m for the age rule. It stops coaches from pushing. What’s to say if trained in a good way, that girls won’t be able to compete for several years, rather then just push towards on goal and then burn out afterward?
What is the point of having an unenforceable rule?!?!
Lower the age rule already! 10. Nobody can do those crazy skills at 10 and if they can, let them hurry and win an Olympic medal before it kills their bodies.
Kelly that’s my point. By pushing these girls to try these huge tricks and not to be concerned about safety and well-being, is just wrong.
The youngest you are going to have a kid out there able to throw these tricks is 12 max. If you look at falsified ages in major competitions, you’ll see kids like Bicherova at 12 who won worlds and was in peak condition. I believe Mostepanova was also 12/13 at her first worlds. I think in some cases you can see where kids will peak earlier and when they will peak later. Some body types do dictate that. Also, some kids are just very mature for their age and can handle world-stage competition. I love how people make these blanket statements about “protecting the children” but how many people say “I was too young to be in the Olympics at 14/15, I really wish my coaches had peaked me later so I could be in the Olympics at 18/19.” ? How many kids that were over-pressured and over-trained would have been less so if the age requirements were older? A coach that is smart will know how and when to push – age minimums don’t seem to change the coach’s ability to peak properly. If they’re smart and know their gymnasts and know their gymnastics they’ll do what needs to be done at the right time.
How many Karolyi kids were broken and injured by the time to Olympics came – and they are touted as the best thing since sliced bread in this country?
There is no method of age determination accurate enough for the purpose being described. Even methods used to determine the age of dead people are only rough estimates (+/- 5 years).
The age rule is not enforceable – period. In it’s present form, the rule benefits only those willing to cheat.
Dump it.
Anyone that thinks that the age rule is stopping moron coaches from over-training their athletes is naive’ or inexperienced in this sport. There are no rules that are going to keep idiots from doing whatever they want to train their kids with no foresight or care about their well-being or their future. Our sport, and every other sport is rampant with these undisciplined, unapologetic, excuse-making losers that care only about their own careers and reputations, and don’t think twice about the repercussions to their athletes. And most of these dolts have little to nothing to do with Olympic caliber athletes. No rule is going to change this. The only way to change these things is the leadership at the top of the organization, the judges and the way they reward difficulty comparative to mastery, and the continuing efforts to train coaches and educate them as to what is important in training. Something I would be interested in pursuing is if there is some way for meet referees, judges, etc. to start filing reports on coaches who have several gymnasts at a meet doing things that are obviously “over their heads”. We have all been to meets and seen this tool that has his kids flipping vaults that they have probably never made safely in practice. Why are there no sanctions for this jerk? What is stopping that guy/girl from going back in the gym and continuing to put his/her kids at risk? No one is telling him/her not to. I’ve heard judges complain about a certain coach and their dread in having to watch his/her kids compete. Why are we not doing something about that? Think of a football player at age 10 coming on to the field without a helmet because his coach told him that he didn’t need one. The ref would send him right back to the sideline and I’m pretty sure the coach would be dealt with by the organization. Why do we not have similar oversight? I, for one, am sick of watching some coaches disregard the best interest of the gymnast because of their own stupidity, and the rest of us looking the other way.
Well said, Troy.
I think I’ll quote you on the front page tomorrow.
It’s ok if they do that to boys, since men can father lots of children. But they should not do it to girls since they represent something that should be cherished and protected.
It’s not OK. A boy who breaks his neck doing some crazy vault he isn’t ready for will most likely have incur a big dent in his reproductive success.
P.S. Learn something. Look up “Naturalistic Fallacy”.
I agree the age rule should be lifted-purely because it cannot be enforced can the FIG or even the IOC successfully take on the Chinese government over false papers?? Heck no. If these documents are falsified by a national government the FIG can not stand up to that.
Secondly, it is not the fault of the athletes who break it. It is the fault of the federation and the country but the athlete will be punished by medal removal.
Do I think the age rule is good for the sport? Maybe, maybe not. I’m undecided but I sure as heck know that I enjoy watching 16+ year old gymnasts more than 12 year olds, they’re more mature and generally have more personality. I also think the fact gymnasts are sticking around into their 20s is good for the non-gymnastics community spectators, some of which I have heard that they fell ‘wrong’ watching little girls compete. But with people like A-Sac and Zamo and their hotness, this has made that less of a problem!
Who’s zamo? Hotness photos?
I agree with Nik, I must say.
Troy’s comments, as well, are very apt.
Zamo= Zamolochikova (sp?) I know a number of guys who find her devine!
link to picture…
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